Guy Henry's interview on film acting, Star Wars Tarkin, Harry Potter, Holby City by DIY Moviemaking

Steve Ramsden here with DIY Moviemaking and today I have a very special guest to speak to. He's been in some famous long running TV shows, some of the biggest Hollywood movie franchises of all time, and some independent film projects too, not to mention lots of stage work. He is Mr Guy Henry and we're going to be talking about what it's like making films from an actor's point of view.

Steve Ramsden: Hello Guy, and thank you for speaking to me today.

Guy Henry: Hello, that's a pleasure!

S: So one of the things I'm always trying to encourage new filmmakers to do is basically start by doing a lot with a little before they think of doing something expensive. So because you've seen a huge range of types of filmmaking from some of the biggest productions to small indie things, including one of mine, I thought you'd be a very good person to talk about this stuff from an actor's point of view, what it's like to have worked on a big range of things.

G; You know, I love the idea of people love being sat in the dark and being told the story and that's what we do.

S: You started and trained as a stage actor. At a most basic level, what would you say are the main ways you find stage acting different to acting on film? 

G: You're inviting the audience to come to you, whether you're in a theatre or in front of the camera, I think. But then obviously you - well the very basic thing is you do come on and shout! I mean, Harry Potter was a funny example of that because that was a lovely thing to be part of. Because there were the young guys, Dan Radcliffe and all the others, but then a hell of a lot of old theatre actors, a lot of people "shouting in wigs in the evening” as we call theatre acting! And that I suppose, if you want to be camp about it that is the main difference - that you are shouting in a wig in a huge room. "Can you hear me at the back?” You know, there's all that kind of thing. Whereas you know, the camera...

S: Yes. On stage there's a gap between you and your audience. So you have to reach them. Whereas if the camera is right up here, you know, you can presumably do very little with the tiniest of movement, which you wouldn't -

G: Oh the tiniest of twitches. Oh, yeah, it is very intrusive. You know, the camera is right there, very close sometimes. And I was doing a scene in the Deathly Hallows and I was the last Minister for Magic. So I was sitting right at the end of a very, very long table with Ralph Fiennes with all his dots on doing Voldemort. I only had a couple of lines. I've been saying whatever the ...ing line was for days and days while they filmed all the other people around me, famous people. And then after I've been saying this line perfectly adequately for literally days, they take a long time to film these big scenes, they said, "Right, we'll go round on you Guy, do your bit." Suddenly, out of nowhere, this huge swooping crane with a camera on it came and went right up and stopped you know, that close to my face. And of course, I dried stone dead. Couldn't remember the line I'd been saying for nearly a week! So it is intrusive and it's possible to be extremely self-conscious in front of the camera. I think there's a 'remove' in the theatre, but it is a very different technique. You're more subtle, you're more internal, you're more gentle in front of a camera. But the same principle applies, I suppose, which is: mean what you say, whether you're wearing a wig, whether you're shouting or whether you're just sitting quietly thinking.

S: Which would you say you prefer the most? Or is that impossible to answer? And do you just enjoy them both for different reasons? (Stage acting and film acting.)

G: My old hero, Peter O'Toole, said, "whatever I'm not doing at the time, I like best!" I was doing a bit in a Netflix thing the other day, which I'm pleased I'm doing. We happened to be in the middle of a heat wave as we filmed this. I was dressed in black tights - I had forgotten how unpleasant they were since RSC days - black britches, black waistcoat, black frock coat, tie's up here in about 35 degrees. You think, "God this is hot, I'm not enjoying this very much!" And so you're always having a grumble about something. So whatever you are not doing at the time, you'd prefer to do the other one. I used to think it was theatre that I preferred. Now that I've got more and more used to doing film stuff, I find it fascinating.

S: When you're acting on film, do you often get a proper chance to rehearse with the director and the cast beforehand on a separate day Because obviously the great thing about theatre is you do it again and again and again until everyone's comfy with it before you perform it. But on a film, you don't often get that luxury. Is it mostly just a quick rehearsal and blocking on the day of shooting, or do you actually get decent rehearsal time with a director before you do a film?

G: It isn't very often you get a full scale rehearsal. We did on the Netflix thing I'm involved in at the moment, that was very useful. I think rehearsal with a good director is very valuable. With the less good ones, I'd rather not bother! Directing is - I'm not just saying this because you're there asking me questions, but you were very good at it when we did our little film. Some people aren't. It's a very difficult art and craft directing people, a bad director can be quite damaging to an actor's confidence or to the atmosphere on set as a whole. It's a whole team of people, isn't it, working together - even on the film that we did, which was a very small scale thing, but there were still a few people all working together to film your story on that day. And it's amazing how wonderfully it can gel with a decent, generous, spirited team of people. That's the actor's life - you're turning up and constantly putting your acting work on the line with people you've never met before.

S: Because we didn't have a separate rehearsal day, the first thing we did on the shoot day when we all turned up was just to have a chat about the script before we rolled anything. So that we all knew that we were making the same film.

G: Yeah, we chatted and we read through the script, everything, and we went for it. 

S: But also because you had asked me in advance what sections I would like you to be able to perform in one go so you'd know which bits you'd be able to do from memory, I thought that was really interesting because it forced me as a director to refer to my shot list and my storyboard and visualise the way I was going to do it and have that plan in advance already. So I thought that was really helpful. Is that also a normal process that you would do?

G: I was going to ask you actually. I’m not aware that all directors do - I'm thinking of Tom I'm working with at the moment, but he doesn't seem to me to be referring to any storyboard or anything like that. He seems to be going "Yeah, I think we'll have it, yeah, let's get a shot from up there", you know.

S: When I am sometimes filming on a set, doing the behind-the-scenes, I think it's the same, sometimes it almost looks like they're coming up with it as they go. And I was always taught no, make a shot list, make a plan. And I'm sure they do. I'm sure they do have a shot list in the storyboard, which they are following.

G: I mean, they will have for example, they will have got used to whatever the location can offer. They will have done their recces, they will have done their research. They'll have thought about it in that way.

S: I assume it's a combination of having a rough plan, but having the confidence to deviate from it if you think of something better. This brings me to talk about long takes, because at the start of the film we made together, Road Kill, it's an eight minute short film but the first 2 minutes is in real time. It's the camera slowly pushing in on your character - as you're describing something terrifying that's just happened to you. Now, as an actor who's had a stage background, do you particularly enjoy doing longer takes more than short ones, because presumably it's more like being on stage and the performance can just flow? Or does it not make a huge amount of difference once you're into the zone?

G: Some things are terrifying. Yeah, genuinely knicker-wetting. Well not genuinely, hopefully, but you know, certainly a bit nerve-wracking, let's put it that way! It does go very quiet suddenly, you know. "Right, quiet, everyone! Right, shhh, going for a take. On Guy now. Close up now" - you know. "Action!" And off you go and the money is flying by and obviously you want to get it right! It's an odd thing to do, acting, really. As I said earlier if you mean what you say you can be an outlandish character, a quiet little shrinking violet or whatever you are, that's who you are in that moment. You just have to believe that in that moment. Occasionally the bubble comes along and nearly everybody knows in the room, you, the director, and the crew, you do know that was the take.

S: I know what that feels like - going, yeah, that's the one. It's so exciting to have nailed something you know that's got a tick next to it, that's definitely getting used, you know, no need to do it again. That's great.

G: There's a little feeling, isn't there of "oh yeah, that's it".

S: For film and TV have there been times when you've felt that you've not been given enough direction? You know, not having to name anybody, but have there been times where you feel like, "is this all I'm going to be told?" Or have there been times when it's the opposite and you feel like you've been over-directed and there's been no room left to make it your own? 

G: I think my least favourite are the ones who demonstrate how to do it. "Oh do it like this". You know, there's no point in saying "do it like that" really. Because they're not playing it. 

S: Yes, 'line reading' when someone reads it and you think, well now I'm just going to feel like I'm doing an impression of you. 

G: Well exactly.

S: Give me the feeling, don't say it so that I'll parrot it. Yeah, I was taught that, I was told not to 'line read'.

G: When I was on the Holby City programme for years - for those who don't know, Holby City was a medical drama on primetime BBC. David Innes Edwards, wonderful director, and he will just come up and go, "I just wondered if he doesn't like the tomato in that sandwich...". You know or whatever, I mean, he'll just "Did he like his mother or not? I don't know, What do you think? Anyway, let's do another one. Okay!" You know. And off you do another one, with a little different flavour. Of tomato in fact!

S: For a new director without much experience, what are some of the most basic things you think that they can do to put their actors at ease? 

G: The one important thing is to make people feel that you know that they will do it in the end. They will do it justice, they're very, very good! That's really what you need to tell them! You know, but then say, "but you see, what about this way?" Or "what about the flavour of that tomato?" You could then you can do anything. But as long as we're in this together and we know we can do this, that's a nice way to work, you know? We can do this, we can all do this.

S: For the film we did together, Road Kill, we had an absolutely tiny crew, as you said. It was basically just me directing and being the DP and operating the camera - I was basically editing in my head as we went along. And then we had a sound recordist as a separate person, and we had a camera assistant as a separate person. And also one of our other actors also helped out as crew basically when he wasn't on camera. Now, as you've seen the finished film, hopefully you'd never know that it was about three and a half people in the crew and that was it. When you think about new filmmakers starting, would you agree that it's probably more important to worry about what's in front of the camera than necessarily waiting till you have a huge crew or lots of equipment behind you?

G: I don't suppose really it matters whether you're working on Star Wars or our film or Holby City or whatever. I mean, really, it is what's going on in front of the camera. The sound also, I think the sound department are often given less room and less credit than they should be. But I would imagine the principles are the same whether you have a crew of three or a crew of 300.

S: I was wearing several hats because I thought it would help me work really fast. What's amazing is we shot an eight minute film in basically a single night. I mean, we did that between about 5pm and 11pm on a winter's night as soon as it got dark.

G: But you did give us the feeling that we would all be fine.

S: I think that's why 90% of directing is casting. You know it's going to be great if it's cast well. And the story - I suppose again for a low budget person starting out, I would argue that the story again is more important than the equipment you're using. You know, a not very interesting story on an amazing expensive camera isn't going to be as good as a good story on a cheap camera. You know, tell the story with what what resources you've got already rather than worrying about expensive kit.

G: I suppose that, a director, you ask yourself sometimes, "What am I doing it for? Why? What film did I see that made me want to be a director?" or whatever it is. What do you love about it? And then you have to pursue that I suppose. I love the development of character during a story. And I always find as an actor, there's one line in a script that sings out and you think, oh, I understand that line. I feel that. If you don't, if you get a script where there isn't one of those, perhaps you're in trouble, but there usually is. Find one! 

S: And unlike the theatre, where what you see is what you get in one go, in films you might have been asked to do several takes with different motivations, tones of voice, emphasis, you know, doing things slightly differently. The editor and the director can then, of course shape the part out of this little bit from this take, this little bit from that take, and they can pick and choose their favourite version, you know, the best possible version of that scene. I know when we did ours, we played some bits more sympathetically in some takes than others. We did a sort of a 'non-caring' version and a 'caring' version and that was really interesting because then that gave me a choice later on of how unsympathetic to perhaps make him towards the person that he's done the thing to. So as an actor, have you ever had some interesting experiences with that? When you've watched it back, have you ever felt that the performance has been altered or improved or made worse by choices made in the edit?And feeling "oh, that's different to how it felt on the day when I was doing it".

G: I think it often is. Occasionally I think you are disappointed that perhaps the director has, or editor or the execs have decided that they're not going to have that bit of you crying with that bit of snot dribbling, or you know, they don't think that it's right for the - I remember there was one episode of Holby that was quite an emotional one where I was upset that they had cut it in the way they did, but I think they were probably saving my skin because I wasn't as good at the emotional bit as I thought I was or something! 

S: And the funny thing is, the audience never sees anything other than the finished thing anyway.

G: Well exactly!

S: They never know what's on the cutting room floor.

G: You can be saved, obviously, by the director and the editor as well. As I say, you can cock up takes and they can pick out bits and looks like you're good at what you're doing. It's not always the case!

S: I just think it's so much fun because I like acting on stage more than I like acting in a film, but for directing, it's the other way round. I tried directing once for stage and I hated it because it was different every night and I wanted to make the 'perfect' version! And if I could have done I'd have taken this moment from that night, that moment from that night, but of course it's not like that! It's a different medium. Whereas I like film because I can create the perfect version.

G: I sometimes forget that not every moment of every take has to be any good, or right, or fulfilled - because you'll do another take and it might be better the next time.

S: It's fun because, as you say, within a take which you might not decide is the right way to play most of it, there could be an amazing little moment, and all you need is that one moment to edit together with the majority of the other take.

G: You as the director and the editor, you have the ability to pick and choose from all the different takes. Sometimes the director will get very cross if you stop yourself and say, "Oh no, no, that wasn't very good". They often say: "Well, actually that was good, why the hell did you stop?" Because actors are not always the best judge of their own work.

S: It all becomes options and editing is all about options.

G: It's amazing as an actor how often some of your most important moments are done in a hurry at 5 to 7 in the evening! I was doing - a very frightening director called Tom Hooper - brilliant, he did The King's Speech and I did a thing with him with the wonderful Paul Giamatti called John Adams about the president of the United States. I was the attorney general, and I had to master this sort of accent, the very early days of America. And they quite rightly said, well, you know, this character, this accent is not modern America - I mean, I know there are millions of accents in America - but anyway, Paul Giamatti carved out from the voice recording of a Suffolk stone carver and modern day Massachusetts this sort of Americany Englishy sounding accent, which I thought was brilliant. I had to emulate it because we were from the same region, I was his friend. And I remember Tom Hooper saying to me - I was in the first episode, so I was the sort of the template being cast, you know, us lot for the rest of the series. And I remember him saying "well if you can't do the accent Guy we might all just as well go home!". So I said, "Oh, thank you!" 

I'd been hanging around for weeks and I suddenly had to go up a tower, I had some glasses fitted on me at the last minute, and do a speech to the assembled throng as the Attorney General with my Suffolk Stone Carver Massachusetts accent - which I either could or couldn't do, it seemed! And it was about ten to seven. The light was going in the evening, you know, and Tom was screeching "Come on you!" "Get on!" "We're losing the light!" and all this and I was going "Aaaargh!" Tom shouts “Action!" Anyway, that's when you have to pull on your 'resources' - pardon the expression - and I did do it. And to Tom's credit, he said in front of everybody, "You see, Guy can do it! Well done, everybody. That's a wrap for the day." But that was bloody frightening, I can tell you! Lovely Paul Giamatti is a great, nice man to see down in the crowd, looking up supportively and nodding while I was trying to do this speech in my funny accent!

S: Speaking of accents and dialogue and that sort of thing, have you ever had to do lots of ADR, you know, where you're looping your lines later? Have you had any experiences in post-production?

G: Oh yes. And occasionally you get the opportunity to improve a line reading, obviously. But yeah, that's a very odd one. And you can often tell bits that have been looped in after, that have been ADR'd because it's so hard, never mind the lip synching - I mean, that is difficult. You get this line going across the screen going "bip, bip, bip" and then you come in.

S: The funniest ones are when it will go to a cutaway because it was maybe a studio note that something wasn't clear enough. And you're hearing the person off screen who sounds a little bit different to how they did a moment ago, because they've obviously been told to add a line. So something where there never was a mouth moving to sync up to it anyway. So they've just got to stick a cutaway over it and you hear them say something that sounds different. 

G: Yes - "So that's that anyway.”(In a different, higher voice:) “But I always loved Aunty Maureen!"

S: Now you've done I mean, obviously some big Hollywood productions, lots of period films with lots of costume, as you said, TV shows, small indie films. As an actor, is it odd going from a big one to a small film or is it all pretty much the same? 

G: Essentially it is the same. There's a camera and there's people there and helping you along. People may know I pretended to be the late Peter Cushing, recreating his wonderful role as a character called Grand Moff Tarkin in Rogue One. It was a prequel to the first ever Star Wars film, so obviously they had to have Peter Cushing in it. But of course Peter Cushing was long dead. And going onto that set, I remember we went through all sorts of machinations about would I wear a wig, I had the dots on, sometimes they thought they might just have me. So that scale of things when you're in one of the biggest franchises ever, I mean that was very frightening, of course it was. But also because I was being asked to do something that hadn't really been done before. And I'm not a mimic and I'm not really an impressionist.

I just had a template line which I used to repeat: "You would prefer another target, a militarrry target?" And I spent so long because it took a long time to film and then they rewrote it and bits were redone, and you know, it took forever. And I kept wrapping on it and thinking, thank God for that, that was frightening, I can go home now! Then they called me back, said "we've written another bit" and can you come back in, you always think that's your fault of course! And you get the motion capture camera digging into your head and you can't forget that you're acting with this camera on with the lights, you know, shining in your eyes, you know, and there you are. But I did try to sound as much as I could like Peter Cushing. I did my best, and a flavour of his voice and his acting and things, and they just put his head on me with CGI makeup.

S: I thought you did a terrific job. Where, again, everyone's waiting for you to do your your thing. And the whole set goes quiet!

G: That was genuinely frightening, yeah. But again, they were a very supportive lot, they were great. We were all in the experiment together. I tried to give them the basic performance to hang the creation of Peter, the wonderful Peter Cushing. You see, I didn't want let him down either, because funnily enough, even long before I was involved in that, he was always one of my favourite actors. I just thought Peter Cushing was a lovely actor, many, many people did, and by all accounts a delightful man. Because I was doing Holby City at the time and there was a line "and then we'll get to the holy city" or something and it sounded to me like Holby City. I kept thinking, I hope I didn't say Holby City in that take did I? "We're going to take them to Holby City".

S: I know people that watched it and didn't question it. In fact, I was watching it a behind the scenes thing from ILM who did all the CGI. The effects artist had shown it to their mother or somebody that knew nothing about Star Wars, and she had said that Peter Cushing looked remarkably good for his age and obviously hadn't realised that he was, you know, long dead!

G: Mads Mikkelsen - he was in the film, he's great, I didn't work with him, but he was in it - I met him at the premiere and he told me that his agent had said that Peter Cushing was marvellous in it and I said "I'm not sure you shouldn't change your agent, Mads!" It wasn't Peter, it was me! Yes, but it was a wonderful, wonderful experience and such. And I'm very proud to have been a part of that extraordinary, extraordinary franchise. Amazing, really. Partly because you don't want to let Lucasfilm and Disney and all that lot down, you don't want them to be cross with you. But on the other hand, you don't want to let the fans down either. And I do these comic convention things sometimes now and you meet people who love these sort of films and it's a pleasure that they enjoyed that. That's what I'm really pleased about is that the diehard fans - not all of them I'm sure  - but a lot of them think it was well done. Yes, I'm very pleased. Very grateful for that.

S: The closest I've got, which reminded me because you said trying to recreate somebody else's thing. There's a video on YouTube I did called Add Yourself To Movies where I was demonstrating how to remove the original actor from a shot using some clever editing, and I filmed myself as an actor replacement against the green screen and I was basically looping their lines. So I did Steve McQueen from The Great Escape, and it led to me doing this with several films. And so I think that's the closest thing I've ever tried to copying a real actor's performance and trying to speak in time with the original lines so that if you get a reply from the other character who's supposedly next to you, it will make sense. So I think you did a cracking job. Was Harry Potter a lot of VFX stuff? Did you have to act a lot facing a green screen or anything like that?

G: There was a strange mixture of real and then the rest of it they put in presumably afterwards. And of course Nagini the snake, she wasn't there on the day or that week. Had a lot of that sort of…(looks at something moving past)

S: Looking at the snake going past.

G: Yeah. And somebody might wave a little tennis ball on a stick, and there she goes! 

S: Actors have had to get good at trusting it will all be there eventually, I suppose.

G: My great mate Hugh Bonneville does a wonderful job acting with a tennis ball in the Paddington films.

S: Yes, of course he does. One of the tips I offer for new filmmakers, especially if they already know some professional or amateur actors, is to write parts with certain people already in mind, because this can help visualise the character when you're writing it. You sort of know what they would say next if you're writing for someone in mind, I think. And it's easier than just trying to make up somebody from thin air. And then it also, I think, gives you an easier time when you're directing it, as I say, because, if you cast someone who can basically play themselves, or something not far off how they would do something, to me, that's a huge help for people who are starting to try and make their own films. Have you ever seen that much of that method being used before in some of the things that you've done? And has anyone, you know, ever written roles with you already in mind?

G: I wish they would!

S: Other than me!

G: Other than you of course, well I enjoyed that one. Yeah, I did. There's another short film I did which you've seen called Done In. Written and directed by Adam Stephen Kelly, which I was proud of. I thought that was very good. I don't know if Adam had me in mind when he wrote it, I think he might have done. On Holby what they do there is they they start you out, you fulfil enough of their template for the role that they can run with it, and you get cast. And then, I mean, it was lovely that Mr. Hanssen's a popular character. I'm proud to say and relieved to say.  I've played Sir Andrew Aguecheek in Twelfth Night a few times. But I also know that since Shakespeare what wrote it, wrote it in 1603 or 4 or whatever it was, you know that had been thousands of Aguecheeks before. Whereas Mr. Hanssen is mine! He was written with me and they said they start out, they see what you can bring to the role. They see what perhaps you're not so good at. And they could steer away from writing stuff like that. And so it was a great, great experience.

S: One tip that I offer aspiring filmmakers who don't know where to find actors: I often suggest try local drama groups, you can find lots of people there who you know will be interested in it, even if they're amateurs. And you can find some great characters in drama groups, that sort of thing. Do you have any other advice for new filmmakers who are trying to entice actors, professional or amateur actors into their films?

G: You said earlier about writing with somebody in mind and having an idea, you know - if you've seen an actor you like in something. I mean, I think I got the Rogue One thing because Gareth the director, lovely Gareth Edwards, was in a hotel room and saw a bit of Holby! So God knows, you know, that's maybe how I got ended up in it - because I didn't audition for that. They just asked me to do it, which is extraordinary really. They just felt I had the right tone, flavour it for it and for Peter Cushing. So if you can see an actor in something that you like, then you look in... Spotlight, IMDB, you know - you can find out where people are. Approach them! Also bear in mind we're egomaniacal twits, - to say to an actor "I've written this for you." You know, it's quite nice to know that! Most actors haven't got that much range. They get cast for who they are!

S: For anyone starting out trying to make films, any final general advice you would have for someone who wants to get a few people together, be it actors or crew and just, you know, have fun making something? 

G: It's the same with any project, be it a great big film or theatre thing or a small scale passion exercise that you might be doing. You have something that you long to do, and enthuse other people to do it, like you did. You want them to come along with you for the fun and the ride.

S: Well Guy, that has been such an interesting chat today, thank you very much for joining me. 

And if you want to learn how to make the best film you can on a budget with me, you can check out my free webinar and full courses at diymoviemaking.com Happy moviemaking and I'll see you next time!